The Christian Debacle!!!!
The saga of Christianity or other religions has been the topic of debate for centuries. I will intelligently and objectively argue against the indifference I have found in the Bible. I do not proclaim to be a scholar of the Bible text. However, since being saved in 2002, I have read the Bible and wrote down certain text that I believe to be misleading. I do not question the belief of a man accepting Jesus in his heart, faith is a powerful tool! I have outsourced my faith in Jesus for humanity. You could argue Jesus and humanity could be one in the same!
quote]"Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind" Thomas Jefferson to James Smith 1822[/quote]
[quote]"The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason" Benjamin Franklyn[/quote]
God's laws are perfect (psa.19:7)? Lets put political spin on this scriptue. During the succession of the South they had this scripture in mind, and concluded Slavery should be their God given right! I do question the perfection of any God allowing Slavery. The Christian will argue, that was the "Old Testiment." However, "God does not change."(mal. 3:6) Did God send his only begotten son to be crucified for his sins? God's laws are perfect and he does not change either means the Jews are right and the son of god had not returned, or the Christian God is not perfect!
[quote]"Believing is easier than thinking. Hence, so many more believers than thinkers." Bruce Calvert[/quote]
Could Jesus disregard his fathers laws when he declared all food clean?(mark 7:18-19) According to Lev. all foods are not clean. We see this in Genisis when Eve ate the apple. Poison is surely not clean!
Do Christians condone the sexual deviant that eat or sample human dung? Society does not accept this as normal behavior, thus why does the Bible?
[quote]"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the Lord said, even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the gentile, wither I will drive them"[/quote]
I have quoted straight from the Bible, I hope a true believer can explain this scripture to me. I have been to Church numerous times, and have never heard the Pastor speak this Gospel. Eating fresh dung from another man, seems to be close to homosexuality, and is punishable by stoneing.
[quote]"Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves" Carl Sagan-Cosmos, Bluse For A Red Planet[/quote]
I will suggest to all, that I never had a chance to go to Heavan, and rejoice with your lord. Unfortunately, my children share the same fate as I. Consider, Gods laws are perfect(plsa. 19-7), and god does not change(mal.3:6).
[quote]"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord." (Deut. 23:1-2)[/quote]
My mother and father never married and I was born out of wed-lock. The Christian God has no compasion for me nor my children. My children were concieved from a father and mother who were married, and yet they are considered Bastards? Can Christians view justify this view? In retospect, I am an objective thinker, and I listen to all arguments. I have allowed my children to attend the Chritian Church, and they can find faith in Jesus or Hummanity. It will be their choice and I will support their beliefs. I believe this is a FATHER showing compasion to his children.....no pun intended!
Inconclusion, I am Cherokee. My grandfather who passed away in 2002 was a full blood and his grandmother walked the Trail of Tears. My ancestors walked the Trail of Tears. Some perished on the way. This was justified by Christians....i.e. MANIFEST DESTINEY. The WTC was destroyed in the name of God, and Crussades in the name of your Holy Father! Through out history Christians or Muslims have raped, and plundered civilization's. Native Americans had no transportation (the horse) to commit such horrendous crimes against hummanity. However, I am not suggesting Indians were perfect or without murder or mayheim in their society. However, we were not savages or deserved to be plundered because we were not Christians! Indians, did not understand how a white man could own land, when it belonged to mother earth. Indians worshiped Mother Nature. Impotantly enough, the Chritian God's prophecy came true when he brought pestilence to the natives!
I have said my peace, thery is more hypocracy to talk about in the Bible. I have touched on personal issues as examples of why I will never be Bamboozeled by a Christian again. I thought I was saved or Baptized in 2002, only to realize, Jesus can not save me, but hummanity, with the help of freedom to expect more and understand more, can save not only me, but man kind!
[quote]"Extrordinary claims require extrordinary evidence" Carl Sagan[/quote]
Quote:The saga of Christianity or other religions has been the topic of debate for centuries. I will intelligently and objectively argue against the indifference I have found in the Bible.
First off, I agree to a certain extent with what you have said here, but I do have a few bones to pick.
The "indifference" that you referr to in the Bible can be found in one generally localized place called the Old Testament. The New Testament is all inclusive for the most part, as far as you are willing to accept Christ as Lord.
Second, where the hell is Scott?? Get on here and post you skinny little bastard!!! Oh, I'm sorry Will, I forgot that you are a bastard...
Quote:During the succession of the South they had this scripture in mind, and concluded Slavery should be their God given right! I do question the perfection of any God allowing Slavery.
Many idiots use all kinds of things to justify their beliefs, including the color of their own skins. The South also used the Constitution of the United States in order to justify their beliefs, but this does not make it an evil document or wrong for that matter. Man will often twist the law to his advantage and mold it to his will. A Jehovah's Witness will tell you that the Bible says that Jesus came down to earth invisibly in 1919, and a Mormon will tell you that the Bible says that God came down and had sex with Marry and that we are all mini-Gods, but none of this is truly supported by the text.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -- Fred Bastiat - Around 1850
Quote:God's laws are perfect (psa.19:7)? Lets put political spin on this scriptue. During the succession of the South they had this scripture in mind, and concluded Slavery should be their God given right! I do question the perfection of any God allowing Slavery. The Christian will argue, that was the "Old Testiment." However, "God does not change."(mal. 3:6) Did God send his only begotten son to be crucified for his sins? God's laws are perfect and he does not change either means the Jews are right and the son of god had not returned, or the Christian God is not perfect!
I agree, there are some rather large contradictions contained within the Bible, but I don't see it as a huge problem in most instances. After all, it also says that God's ways are not our own, and being that God is infinite and we are finite, we can't possibly logically understand God or his ways fully. Anytime the subject of God comes up, there will be many instances where answers just can't be arrived at, after all, he is God. If we understood him, then we would be as he is, so debating religion in my view is largely a waste of time, which is why I avoid it.
For instance, you have Abraham who is known as the father of faith. What did he do to merit this title? He tried to kill his only son at the request of God. Now, the traditional christian interpretation of this story is that Abraham exhibited great faith in this instance and was a great man, but if you or I attempted what he did, we would be thrown in prison or the looney bin, and none of our Christian friends would ever come to our defense. They would surely see us as crazy. Now, clearly Abraham must have believed God when God told him to kill his only son, otherwise his attempted murder would be seen as fake and he would not have real faith. Likewise, God must have really wanted Abraham to kill Isaac, otherwise God would be a liar. No matter how you look at this story, you cannot analyze it logically. Faith and reason are not bed fellows. Abraham is seen as the "Father of Faith" because he believed in God and God believed in him... What does that mean?? I hope to ask God someday. In the end Will, we are left with a leap of faith. Inductive logic can only take us so far, and in the end we are always left with a paradox that seemingly cannot be explained, so we leap. Our very existence on this earth is a paradox that has not been bridged by the best minds, and seemingly never will be.
Do I see the Bible as the absolute authority on God?? No. It has been manipulated over the years, and who knows what it originally said. The Catholic church has manipulated individuals for years with its own made-up dogma, just like every other cult in the world. The Puritans also had their own biblically unsupported dogma that infiltrates Protestant religion to this day. For instance, Baptists are some of the most superstitious people that you will ever meet. A lot of them don't believe in dancing, clapping, standing up during the service, astrology, drinking, gambling, and a multitude of other phobic dogmas that are not found in the Bible, but they will preach every Sunday that it is in the Bible, simply because that is what they have been taught since the days of the Pilgrims. It is an oral tradition not necissarily founded on written Biblical truths. People are often far too lazy to actually study up on what they are being told, and so they will often believe anything that their preacher tells them. This is why I am against organized religion, which has shown itself as a way of controlling and dumbing down the masses.
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www.givemeliberty.50megs.com/
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President Andrew Jackson stated in reference to the bankers at the state of his administration: "You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out."
"Our Founding Fathers believed that it was self-evident that the God of Nature is the sovereign of the universe and everything in it (as well as mankind) and that He had endowed all mankind with "certain unalienable rights" making them self-directing sovereigns, which means that any governments instituted among men derive their just powers (only) from the consent of the governed, who are the source of earthly power and authority. Hence any attempt to exercise any powers NOT conveyed by the People is unjust and unauthorized, and any act done pursuant to such usurpation of power is void."
"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite." Gary Allen, Author
Quote:"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the Lord said, even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the gentile, wither I will drive them."
Where is this verse located?? You have to be careful not to make the logical error of quoting verses out of their context. Some of the guidelines given to the Israelites are not necissarily the law of God.
Be careful not the throw the baby out with the bath water. The Bible is still quite an amazing document of historical record, which has been verified many times over through archeological discovery. The Tower of Babel story was verified by King Nebechadnezzar, who rebuilt part of its base and inscripted stones documenting the story. The walls of Jericho have been found, and historical records of King David and Solomon were discovered. Evidence of the Exodous of the Jews from Egypt and historical references to Christ exist etc...
The Bible also contains some astounding advancements in the knowledge of modern science and medicine. For instance, the first and second Laws of Thermodynamics are expressed through out the text. Isaiah refers to the earth as a circled orb. Job exhibited advanced knowledge of the hydrological cycle and the jet stream.
The Bible also laid out quite a remarkable foreknowledge of personal hygiene and medicine. The Israelites were told to quarentine the sick and dying, and to not touch dead carcasses or eat sick animals. Dead animals and humans were to be buried immediately or burned. They were also told to wash their hands with running water(Numbers 19:14-17). Circumcission has proven itself to be an advancement in medical science.
These advancements in medical science gave them an extroadinary advantage over their enemies because they were healthier and without disease. Up until WWII, the number one cause of death in war was disease because of the world's general lack of understanding of bacteria and hygiene. The Israelites far predated this technology because of the protocols outlined in their Bible. During the great bubonic plague that ravished Europe, there was one sect that did not contract the plague and they were the Jews. As a result, they were persecuted and blamed for it, but it didn't involve magic, only the technological advances of their Bible.
Also, the Bible contains advanced directions for preparing grain and thrashing wheat, making bread without destroying its nutrient content. The Kosher diet is still used to this day by Jewish communities, and it is a fact that they are some of the healthiest people on earth. The Bible lays out very specific directions for curing and preserving food, which maintains the nutrient content and prevents spoilage.
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www.givemeliberty.50megs.com/
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President Andrew Jackson stated in reference to the bankers at the state of his administration: "You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out."
"Our Founding Fathers believed that it was self-evident that the God of Nature is the sovereign of the universe and everything in it (as well as mankind) and that He had endowed all mankind with "certain unalienable rights" making them self-directing sovereigns, which means that any governments instituted among men derive their just powers (only) from the consent of the governed, who are the source of earthly power and authority. Hence any attempt to exercise any powers NOT conveyed by the People is unjust and unauthorized, and any act done pursuant to such usurpation of power is void."
"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite." Gary Allen, Author
Re: The Christian Debacle!!!!
“And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the Lord said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentile, wither I will drive them” Ezekiel (4:12-13)
Where in the Bible does it talk about the jet stream and the earth being circled orb? If this were the case people would have used their faith and realized well before Columbus that the world was not flat.
“Funny how science gets it right when you want a computer, medical science to eliminate smallpox or treat your erectile dysfunction, anti-lock breaks to save your life--but all evolutionist using the scientific method you take advantage of all day long…are wrong.” Rob Mickus. Naustradamus had been credited with knowing about New York, although he refers to the “New City.” People believe they see faces on the moon and in the clouds!!! Is that justification for Angels? I can look at any object and believe it to have godly origins because it looks like a face.
Hammurabi’s Code of Laws has 282 laws. Where is the mention of Hammurabi in the Bible? The Christian belief could not accept that the 10 commandments, came from a mortal and not a burning bush called God. Point being, civilization has evolved over time, and there really was no break through with modern medicine or hygiene from the Bible. The bible should have discovered the wheel to save back pain.
The Bible talks about preparing bread and the Kosher diet…where in the Bible does it discuss using fire for cooking? It can’t because fire is an evil metaphor. You should have a starting point, instead of just taking credit for hummanity. God just gave advise on a new way to prepare your bread and preserve it, and a better diet. How rediculous does all that sound. Point being, how many poor souls have died from food poisoning because of the lack of knowledge to cook your food. This is all relative, however I believe a Supreme God has given us the ability to advance our world through trial and error. When Thomas Edison was described as the man who failed over 2,000 times to manufacture the light bulb he was quoted as:
“I did not fail over 2,000 times in creating the light bulb, but I found over 2,000 different ways how not to make a light bulb.” God did not create the light bulb. Nor should we give God credit for refrigeration to preserve food, or the modern medicines. Man has struggled and created for himself a better world with out God’s interference, as God obviously wants.
“To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin.” Cardinal Bellarmino 1615, during the trial of Galileo
The good Cardinal belonged to God, and Galileo belongs to science.
Re: The Christian Debacle!!!!
We need some humor, and I have quoted some great quotes.
16 Reasons Why God Never Received Tenure at the University
Author Unknown
1. He had only one major publication
2. And it was in Hebrew
3. And it had no references
4. And it was not published in a refereed journal
5. And some even doubted that He wrote it Himself.
6. It may be true that He created the world, but what has He done since then?
7. His cooperative efforts have been quite limited.
8. The scientific community has had a very rough time trying to replicate His results.
9. He never applied to the Ethics Board for permission to use human subjects.
10.When one experiment went awry, He tried to cover it up by drowning the subjects.
11. When subjects did not behave as predicted, He often punished them, or just deleted them from the sample.
12. He rarely came to class: He just told students to read the book.
13. He has his son teach the class.
14. He expelled His first two students for learning too much.
15. Although there were only ten requirements, most students failed His tests.
16. His office hours were infrequent, and usually held on a mountain top."
"People go to church for the same reasons they go to a tavern: to stupefy themselves, to forget their misery, to imagine themselves, for a few minutes anyway, free and
happy."
-Mikhail Aleksandrovich Bakunin
I contend that we are all atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you.
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
-Stephen L. Roberts
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer.”- anonymous
I have little confidence in any enterprise or business or investment that promises dividends only after the death of the stockholders.” - Robert G. Ingersoll
Eskimo- “If I do not know about God and Sin, would I go to Hell”
Priest- “Not knowing, you would not go to Hell”
Eskimo- “Then why did you tell me”
Veilhawk Registered Member
Posts: 1
(10/19/05 7:52) Reply
Boogy down Mr. Sun
I'm going to say about how I feel about the bible too.
Overall: It's determined horribly wrong. It's gone through language barriers that has changed words that weren't in the translated language. And the powers that held these books throughout history had deleted entire books and verses because they weren't 'divinely inspired' so say the catholics, and their offshoot christians, protestants, puritans, etc. Yet the papacy keeps these books in their libraries. Also like any government through history; the secrecy of those organizations gives a hint of what they're up to. And it's usually nothing good. The catholic and all those other offshoot bibles out there are all put together and edited to form an outline of the way they see it; like a political agenda. The politician works with those 'rules' that were made by his party and does not step out of the boundaries.
In the renaissance of Europe, rich people who had donated huge amounts of money to the churches were granted entrance into heaven for their huge contribution to the church, and if you were poor you were @#%$, and you had to eat dirt and give your 1 pence a week when you made 5. Nevermind catholic priests have been raping little choir boys since it started. And started wars, and lying to people, all in the 'name of god' because their rulebook said so: Again, like a political agenda. LEGAL is what I'm talking about here. Lawful is truth of what is and what is not. I don't know if catholics started LEGALism, I doubt they did, but they sure did use it. Legal means derived from law.
Well then what does that make law? Everything that is true, and not true. The sun rises everyday = true. Wind from the south means rain = true. And so forth. So to push their agenda. Just like government today; they also made servants out of the people they governed and used their LEGAL agenda (political agenda) derived from law (truth) to push their view and justify killing people, diseases, wars, famines, etc.
According to my parents when I was little: god angels and demons were real... but my imaginary friend named Fred wasn't.
'How come Fred isn't real?'
'I can't see him'
At that time I didn't know to say 'well you can't see god', but still. Their excuse would be 'I can feel him.' Even though I never had an imaginary friend named fred: It's just an example of their stupidity.
Now I'm not totally hating the bible (kjv). Because it does have principle; but it's horribly misinterpreted. There is no such thing today as seperation of church and state. I was talking to my mom yesterday about that and society. I was saying everything should be locally grown, we should all have the power to grow our own food, pay no taxes to the government, have no licenses for anything, and do away with all things that encourage us to give our money to them. 'Encourage' means scare us into giving them money. And just like government; churches scare people into submission. They make a problem 10,000 miles away, and say 'give us your money to fight these people even though we're the richest country in the world! The history of this country depends on your shoulders!'
Hoping to make people think there's some good ol' American work ethic involved, like the good ol' boys during WW2 who did their job, and did it well. With a 'god bless america' sticker or t-shirts and flags to show they stand behind their fuhrer.
Most people don't even bother to question how rich people get rich, or how people in power get that way (how the kjv bible got to be what it is). Or they don't make the link that in their own government controlled US History class books say that people like Taft got in power by cheating, stealing, and lying. Americans who came to this country were drug dealing thieves. They stole the land the native americans used, and they grew tobacco. I doubt all of them stole it by gunpoint, but no doubt some traded. I've read that the europeans would give things like glass bowls and dollar bills for huge amounts of land. Just to find out that they couldn't get crap from what was given to them. And to make it worse they put things on paper, and make people sign it to 'prove' one person owns it over another.
People in this age are really stripped. Truth is what matters. Not religion, not money, not paper, but nature. It always does a better job than the corrupt. And to learn from nature is far better than to learn from orthodox precepts of LEGALism.
Quote:“And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the Lord said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentile, wither I will drive them” Ezekiel (4:12-13)
This appears to be directions for prophesying given to Ezekiel, and it appears to represent the defiled bread of banished and sinful Israel. In no way does this represent a commandment to go out and eat crap, nor should it be taken as such, hence the explanation of "defiled". I guess that your point is that God must not have known what he was talking about because God told Ezekiel to eat crap cakes, but clearly God is God, and if he can save Ezekiel from the crap cakes, then it is a very small feat for God.
The Circled orb of the earth (Isaiah 40:22) Job 26:7 tells us that God hangs the earth on nothing. Amos 5:8 seems to have discovered the 7th star of the Pleiades constellation. Advanced knowledge of weather patterns (Ecclesiastes 11:3) (Ecclesiastes 1:7) (Job 36:27-29). The Jet Stream is described by King Solomon (Ecclesiastes 1:6) and (Job 28:24-26). King David seems to have known about the Guld Stream thousands of years before Benjamin Franklin discovered the currents of the oceans (Psalm 8: .
There is the anthropic principle of the earth, where it is seemingly perfectly designed for man. A tiny fractions difference in the levels of oxygen on the planet, and life would be impossible. Any further away or closer to the Sun and life would be impossible. The size and desnity of the earth seem perfectly suited for maintaining our current atmosphere, which allows us to live and breath. In essance, if our solar system were changed in the slightest, all life would cease to exist.
Quote:“Funny how science gets it right when you want a computer, medical science to eliminate smallpox or treat your erectile dysfunction, anti-lock breaks to save your life--but all evolutionist using the scientific method you take advantage of all day long…are wrong.” Rob Mickus. Naustradamus had been credited with knowing about New York, although he refers to the “New City.” People believe they see faces on the moon and in the clouds!!! Is that justification for Angels? I can look at any object and believe it to have godly origins because it looks like a face.
Who created the laws, the intelligence, and the material to create a computer?? Man merely fashions things in his own likeness, just as he was fashioned in God's likeness. A computer is nothing more than a synthetic replica of the DNA of man... What is the origin of the genetic code of man? Just as a computer code came from man, his genetic code did not come from himself.
Macro-evolutionists do not use the scientific method. They can not place an ameoba into a test tube and then watch it transform into a man over the course of 50 million years. Macro-evolutionist theory is nothing more than crap. Are we capable of evolving? Yes, but explain to me how an eye ball or an ear, both things made up of individual parts that without the whole of the parts cannot function, evolved? Any professional breeder of anything will tell you that you can only make so many breeds. There is a point at which the genetic code will not allow any further evolution. Mutations are harmful 99.9% of the time, making the odds of good mutations occuring millions of time over just to make a simple improvement infinitesimally small. The fact is that our genetic code has remained the same with no deviations as far back as scientists can look. Macro-evolution is a farce placed on us by Egyptian mystics and their ilk. Did you know that Macro-evolution is a masonic doctrine? It did not originate with Darwin, and even Darwin debunked his own theories. Since Darwin the scientific community has lied and faked their way into unintelligibilty. To the point where today they announce that they have finally found the missing link to man almost on a daily basis, but by tomorrow they are looking again.
Quote:Hammurabi’s Code of Laws has 282 laws. Where is the mention of Hammurabi in the Bible? The Christian belief could not accept that the 10 commandments, came from a mortal and not a burning bush called God. Point being, civilization has evolved over time, and there really was no break through with modern medicine or hygiene from the Bible. The bible should have discovered the wheel to save back pain.
Probably because this code was as full of superstition and stupidity as most of the rest of the world before the Jews. The Egyptians used to used cat dung and snake's blood as ointments. I don't deny that parts of the Old Testament have come from earlier texts, but given that it breaks precidence with every other religion and belief system at the time by being monothestic etc., I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but there is no real way to know.
Quote:The Bible talks about preparing bread and the Kosher diet…where in the Bible does it discuss using fire for cooking? It can’t because fire is an evil metaphor.
I wouldn't confuse medievil superstitions with Biblical truths. Cooking your food is not a technology, but a step backward. The Kosher diet, which is about selecting proper meats and curing and preparing them so that your don't have to cook them, thus preserving their health value, is an advancement in technology. Cooking your meat actually destroys most of the beneficial enzymes and nutrients that the body needs from it. The Kosher way is much healthier, which has been proven many centuries over. The main reason that we cook our meat today is because we eat the ground up crap of a million different cows and chickens.
Quote:God did not create the light bulb. Nor should we give God credit for refrigeration to preserve food, or the modern medicines. Man has struggled and created for himself a better world with out God’s interference, as God obviously wants.
Well, it depends on how you look at it.. He created man in his own image with the intelligence and the free will to utilize the laws of nature to his particular advantage. But again, who created man's intelligence, and who made these natural laws that govern ourselves and the earth that we can work?
Quote:“To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin.” Cardinal Bellarmino 1615, during the trial of Galileo
The good Cardinal belonged to God, and Galileo belongs to science.
As I said before, inductive logic (science) can only take you so far. Can science explain how an electron can seemingly be in more than one place at the same time?? No. Can science explain who you are and why you are here? No. Can science even explain the origins of time or the universe? No. No, it cannot explain any of these things.
Inductive logic is limited in its scope by its very being. What does that mean? Do some research on something called Godel's Theorem. It is a logical law that concerns self referencing statements. For instance:
This statement is false.
If this statement is true then it is false, and if it is false then it is true? Confused yet. This is the point at which all logic breaks down and we can go no further. A mathematical formula can only take us so far, and then it runs into the problem of accounting for itself, and like a computer that has a virus (that is essentially what a computer virus is) it will break down and state: "cannot compute." Why does this happen?? It is because our own being is not within ourselves, but from without, i.e., you did not create yourself. This is why all codes have a coder as its point of origin. A monkey will never write Shakespeare no matter how many millions of years that he tries.
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www.givemeliberty.50megs.com/
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President Andrew Jackson stated in reference to the bankers at the state of his administration: "You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out."
"Our Founding Fathers believed that it was self-evident that the God of Nature is the sovereign of the universe and everything in it (as well as mankind) and that He had endowed all mankind with "certain unalienable rights" making them self-directing sovereigns, which means that any governments instituted among men derive their just powers (only) from the consent of the governed, who are the source of earthly power and authority. Hence any attempt to exercise any powers NOT conveyed by the People is unjust and unauthorized, and any act done pursuant to such usurpation of power is void."
"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite." Gary Allen, Author
Re: The Christian Debacle!!!!
That is why I am against organized religion Veil...
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www.givemeliberty.50megs.com/
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President Andrew Jackson stated in reference to the bankers at the state of his administration: "You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out."
"Our Founding Fathers believed that it was self-evident that the God of Nature is the sovereign of the universe and everything in it (as well as mankind) and that He had endowed all mankind with "certain unalienable rights" making them self-directing sovereigns, which means that any governments instituted among men derive their just powers (only) from the consent of the governed, who are the source of earthly power and authority. Hence any attempt to exercise any powers NOT conveyed by the People is unjust and unauthorized, and any act done pursuant to such usurpation of power is void."
"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite." Gary Allen, Author
Veilhawk Registered Member
Posts: 2
(10/19/05 14:24) Reply
Mr. Sun is cool
Me too. Though when I've said science is crap before on the other board, I did not mean reasoning. Science and reasoning are not the same. Organized religion today adds science to it's teachings, and corrupt government. So all I can say is science is bs, and corrupt because they both work together to push lies: The tares defile the wheat. People buy on lies without reason of who has to gain in science and organized religion.
But deductive reasoning is fine.
smhill1120 Registered Member
Posts: 2
(10/21/05 15:08) Reply
Re: The Christian Debacle!!!! or is it
Opps, it looks like I before I was still trying to figure out how to post and had left this blank.
Edited by: smhill1120 at: 1/23/08 15:34
smhill1120 Registered Member
Posts: 3
(10/21/05 15:37) Reply
Re: The Christian Debacle!!!!
Wow I am behind that was a lot to read. And I must say Ryan you are doing a very good job with out me.
Now where to start
“And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the Lord said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentile, wither I will drive them” Ezekiel (4:12-13)
Now it is always very important in reading and understanding the Bible that you must set it in it context.
But when I speak to you, I will open your mouth and you shall say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says.' Whoever will listen let him listen, and whoever will refuse let him refuse; for they are a rebellions house. ( Israel) Ezekiel 3 :27
Ezekiel the prophet has been called by God to speak to Israel
The context is a siege or attack on Jerusalem being symbolized. Ezekiel ( the man) is being told by God to first draw a map of Jerusalem with siege weapons and camps around it. Then he was to write down the sins of Israel and place it on him as he laid on his side. He was representing the sin of Israel. He was to lay there for a long time. The Lord had him set out ingredients to make bread. Water was set out too. Now the bread need to be made and this where you misread the text. He was to use human excrement [u]to cook the food not eat it.[/u] Probably his own. Gross I know. Now the reason being is that it was to be done in sight of the people of Israel and it was to represent the sick nature of the sins of Israel that were being commented. ( Idols and detestable practices)
[b]But and a very big But[/b] as you read on is that Ezekiel says "Not so, my Lord! I have never defiled myself. From my youth until now I have never eaten anything found dead, or torn by wild animals. No unclean meat has ever entered my mouth." (and in the Lord's grace and mercy he says.) "Very well, I will let you bake your bread over cow manure instead of human excrement."
Which was commonly used in the Near East as a fuel for baking back then and even by some today.
God is good, loving and reasonable.
Now not only is there mention of the jet Stream and a circle orb but there is also mention of a dinosaur, as well as a sea dinosaur or creature in Job . As well as other things.
Job 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eats grass as an ox.
Job 40:16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
Job 40:17 He moves his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
Job 40:18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
Job 40:19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
Job 40:20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
Job 40:21 He lies under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
Job 40:22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
Job 40:23 Behold, he drinks up a river, and does it not quickly : he trusts that he can draw up the Jordan into his mouth.
Job 40:24 He takes it with his eyes: his nose pierces through snares.
And the Sea Dinosaur-Job 41:1 Can thou draw out leviathan with a hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lets down?
Job 41:2 Can thou put a hook into his nose? or peirce his jaw through with a thorn?
Job 41:3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? will thou take him for a servant forever?
Job 41:5 Will thou play with him as with a bird? or will thou bind him for thy maidens?
Job 41:6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
Job 41:7 Can thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
Job 41:8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
Job 41:9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
Job 41:10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?(God)
And in Genesis there is mention of Cain building a city then a couple of verse later his sons are raising livestock, playing instruments (harps and flutes) and others who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Way before these ages.
The truth is that God created us in his image and in his likeness. With great understanding and quick learning.
Now I am not arguing that some organized religions have been very wrong and controlling, not to even mention the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. The Catholic Church has been in some way very legalistic. I mean the Catholic church has some foundations in Egyptian cults. And that is just sad. Legalism is wrong and doesn't represent the whole church or God. The church I do believe in. Christianity as I have said is truly not about religion at all. It is about a relationship with God/Jesus. That point is though out the whole Bible. The will of God for man is to bring Him Glory. Glory for what He has done for us. What has and is bringing glory to God is the fact that Jesus died on the Cross for our sins, serving Him, bring other to his Name and worshiping Him.
Now here is where the law come into place. Why did Jesus die on the Cross? Well as we know for are sins. Well how do we know we have sinned? Why is doing wrong a sin? Or why is sin a sin? If we just came from monkeys then there is really no sin. No point to do anything really. But God gave us a conscience to know what is wrong and right, and the laws of God tell us what is wrong. We have all broken at lest one of the ten commandments. Stole or lied. Jesus spoke that looking at a women in a lustful way is the same as commenting adultery. Not to mention the other 400+ laws. Jesus spoke that braking just one of the laws makes you guilt of braking all of the laws. ("For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.")Rom 3:23 What is the Glory of God?,- It is Perfection, Holiness. God can not be in the presence of sin or evil. Man is not perfect, no one is perfect. Now that presents a problem. So God sent his son to die in our place. To die for the sin we have done. Jesus lived a sinless life to be able to take on the sins of the world on the cross. Jesus is called the Lamb of God. Why?
Like a lamb in the Old Testament, a lamb back then was used to atone or cover up the sins of the people. The lamb had to be spotless, - perfect, to be sacrificed before God. For God to find it pleasing before Him. Death was the only way to atone for the braking of the Law or Commandments. In the same way Christ had to die. Take upon Himself the sins of the world. And in this time on the cross God had to turn away from his son, turn his back from him because Christ took on the sin. ( " My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me.")Mark 15:34 In that moment God turned away form Jesus. Jesus died for the world. And his Resurrection proves in Who he is (God) and what he did.
You see sin entered the world through one man ( Adam) and though one man sin was atoned for. And once you accept Jesus into your life, your sins are forgiven. Salvation is a gift from God it can not be earned for no man could do any thing close to earn it or become perfect. That’s is where some people forget and legalism comes in. Or in some cases judgement as well . No one can say you are going to Hell for that is for God to decide and who isn’t to say that that person may get saved down the road. Though it is true that ( “ for the wages of sin is death.”) Death not just in the sense of your first death (body) but the second, your soul. Death meaning Hell, or eternal separation form God. Jesus is the bridge between man and God. With out Jesus and the Holy Spirt living inside of you can not go to Heaven. For in Rev. the Holy Spirit testifies on your behalf before Jesus the Judge.
Well how can we know all of this is true. Well the Bible has been translated very carefully thought time. The kjv was translated by over 70 scholars and the new kjv the same. The new international version was as well translated by ever more people from the original Hebrew and Greek text, over 15,000 still around today and also from the Dead Sea Scrolls. But I would look out for the Catholic Bible, it has some books that were not in the original text. But truly it boils down to faith. Faith is powerful as you said Will. For it is by Faith you are saved. And though there are plenty of facts to go with my faith too.
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Oh, I'm sorry Will, I forgot that you are a bastard...
Boogy down Mr. Sun
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